Author Topic: Black Profiling...??  (Read 1754 times)

Boss cross damon

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Black Profiling...??
« on: October 12, 2001, 05:05:00 am »
So black people are just supposed to ignore the obvious injustice of racial profiling because it causes no \"tangible\" physical or financial harm?
Well, what happened to justice? Is not the 14 Amendment to the Constitution still valid? Equal protection under the laws is mandated in the Constitution. Does this no longer mean anything?
What happened to the presumption of innocence? Is that no longer part and parcel of this \"democracy\"? What about the 4th Amendment which guarantees citizens can be secure in their persons, and protects against unreasonable searches? Does none of this now apply to black citizens?
If the rights of black people can be so easily trampled upon, so capriciously disregarded, then one must ask the question that begged Frederick Douglass in 1852, \"What to the Negro is your 4th of July?\" What to the Negro is your Constitution? What to the Negro is your concepts of justice? Your professions of democracy are mere mockery to the ears of the Negro.
If at the whims of the majority racial group, or the law enforcers of this nation, the rights of the Negro can be so blantantly and overtly circumvented, then what good is having these rights?
-------
Contrary to DianaPrince\'s anti-black propaganda, the overwhelming majority of racial profiling is not centered around looking for someone who has just committed a crime. It occurs before any crime, any fraud has ever been committed. It presumes guilt based on race.
Racial profiling is a continuation of the white supremacist standard of generalizing and stereotyping all black people based on the actions of a few.
Racial profiling is harrassment of any black person, at any time, with the justification of \"They\'re all criminals. They\'re all drug dealers. They all have bad credit.\"
DianaPrince proposes that we should lower our expectations for justice, that we should thicken our skins against injustice. She says it\'s just a minor inconvenience, after all these are not \"cavity searches\"!
Well the longer we de-sensitize ourselves to acts of injustice, the more egregious the acts of injustice will become. The old South\'s Black Codes come to mind. With attitudes like DianaPrince\'s we may be headed back to black codes, or we may not have ever gotten out of them.
Further, while racial profiling may not affect the bottom line, or physical health of black people, what does it do to the psychological health? Even if you can just brush off the \"inconvenience\" of being racially profiled, what happens to a consciousness that is repeatedly told that they are just as much a citizen as anyone else, but then they are treated in a fashion that is entirely different than anyone else?
What kind of duality is established in the minds of persons who hear about liberty and justice for all, but experience profiling for just one? Yes, we control our psychology, but the mind does not reconcile contradictions without severe consequences.
Lastly, the case of the Unabomber is totally irrelevant here. That was not a race profile, but a psychological profile, and an eyewitness description of his appearance. This occurred after a number of crimes, and white people were not randomly stopped and interrogated about their activities.
DianaPrince will stoop to any amount of subterfuge to justify her hatred of black people. I really don\'t think it is a conscious hatred though. It is more of a deep seeded subconscious hatred that she masks by thinking she really is trying to help black people. It is just like Sgt. Watters in \"A Soldier\'s Story\".
Bo, our words do no good. For her to awaken she will need some catastrophic occurrence that shakes her foundation, similar to what the death of C.J. Memphis did to Sgt. Watters. Then she will cry out as ole Sarge did, \"look at what it\'s done to me, I HATE MYSELF!\"

Boss cross damon

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Black Profiling...??
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2001, 05:12:00 am »
MindKandy, just wondering, do you still have that white boyfriend?
Probably so, because you think black folks ain\'t \"cultured\".
Every black person in an IR is manifesting their deep seeded feelings about white supremacy.

babydoll

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Black Profiling...??
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2001, 11:52:00 am »
quote:Originally posted by Boss cross damon:
MindKandy, just wondering, do you still have that white boyfriend?
Probably so, because you think black folks ain\'t \"cultured\".
Every black person in an IR is manifesting their deep seeded feelings about white supremacy.

That was totally uncalled for!

Bo

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Black Profiling...??
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2001, 01:11:00 pm »
quote:Originally posted by Smirk:
DP
\"I believe that you have a very strong foundation in your emotional world and you believe we would all be better off if we had similar mental/emotional defenses.  But lots of us don\'t want to be stronger, better, deeper, whatever.  We just want to be treated equally across the board in all situations...\"
Very well stated \"Smirk.\"  This is the essence of my entire argument.  I\'m not sure why this is a difficult notion for some.  This should be (especially to blacks) a fundamental argument!
[This message has been edited by Bo (edited 10-12-2001).]

BlkGeisha

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Black Profiling...??
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2001, 06:04:00 pm »
It\'s kinda hard to brush off racial profiling when you are handcuffed face down in the felony prone position in the street while the officer checks to see if you stole your own car. If that is not degrading and physical I\'m not sure what is then.
BlkGeisha

DianaPrince

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« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2001, 06:32:00 pm »
BG, did that happen to YOU?  And is there more to the story?  Or was a cop just driving along, with no report of that make/model car being missing, and just decided to cuff and throw down on the ground the black driver of that car?
And the black driver was cooperative and non-aggressive, and the cop still felt the need to cuff him/her and throw him/her face down on the ground?
If that was the case, was it taken to court and did the judge condone a cop giving that treatment to an innocent non-aggressive black citizen?

DianaPrince

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Black Profiling...??
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2001, 06:35:00 pm »
I refuse to be put in a position to of having to waste too much time defending position that I didn\'t take or statements that I didn\'t make.  Just about everyone above who responded to my posts, have stated or implied ridiculous nonsense that I didn\'t say and cant be found in my posts.  If you aren\'t clear, and you want to ask me what I mean by a specific statement, then fine, but dont paraphrase, dont summarize...JUST QUOTE ME!!! within context, so that we can all be on the same page.  Overly emotional, and overly sensitive people have a tendency to misinterpret the meanings of others, b/c they think they are \"familiar with your kind\", so they make ASSumptions accordingly.
So far, not one here has provided me with a specific example of \'racial profiling\' that I said s/b ignored and allowed to stand.   I dont even believe anyone here has even given me a concrete definition of what constitute racial profiling(is it any and every instance where race is part of a profile?) , or answer for me whether of not they are agreeable to race being part of a profile, if/when it is associated with the description of a suspect that is reported in a specific crime.
My actual posistions have been as follows:
1.  Lets be honest and try to understand the reasoning behind racial profiling, so as not to allow an instance of us being racially profiled, to cause lasting deep seated damage to our self-esteem, personal pride, psyche, and over all psychological well being.  That is NOT the same as saying that we should IGNORE all racial profiling in general.  Understanding does not equal ignoring.
 
Renee gave an example of her being asked for ID while making a credit card purchase, right behind a white female who was not asked.  She questioned why she was being treated differently, and I have no problems with that,(especially if done in a non-violent way).  However, I pointed out that we also need to be honest and acknowledge that Blacks in general DO tend to have worst credit history/habit than other groups, so we shouldn\'t take it personal and allow it to scar our psyche if/when those of us with good credit are given extra scrutiny.
I also have the same view when it comes to negatives that whites tend to have a higher incidence of.  Bo gave the example of white males tending to engage in pedophilia (specifically with boys) at a higher rate....so if the coach of your young son\'s sports team happens to be a white male, that white male may very well be a very decent harmless man, BUT should he try to understand if some parents are more suspicious of him, I say yes he should understand the reasoning behind it and not take it personal to the extent of having it scar his psyche.  Should he sit back and IGNORE being called a possible pedophile, no, he is entitled to defend himself (in a non-violent way).
2.  I get the feeling that the term \'racial profiling\' is being generalized to apply to just about ANY and ALL interaction that black folks have with law enforcement or businesses,  and crying wolf takes away from the legitimate instances of racial profiling that is causing  great harm to us.
If you can admit that violent street crimes (the type most likely to be reported to the police), IS commited at a higher rate by young blacks, especially black males, then WHY is it so unacceptable for cops to watch or interrogate black males at a higher rate?  I understand that if you are an innocent black male, it might be stressful or inconveniencing for you to be pulled over and questioned or have your car searched, BUT isn\'t it worth it to you to sacrifice some convenience, IF that results in a higher probability of a criminal (most violent crimes are black on black) being captured and removed from the black community?  Or do you prefer to have extra criminals reaking havoc in the black community, just b/c white males aren\'t being interrogated at the same rate in their lesser violent communities?  WHERE IS THE LOGIC?   I have asked repeatedly, how \"racial profiling\" is causing tangible harm to YOU (if YOU are a law abiding person) in such instances?
And when whites are interrogated, is that racial profiling, or is the term reserved only for any encounter that blacks have with law enforcement?  Perhaps its b/c I\'m a law abiding person why I\'m less fearful of \"racial profiling\"...perhaps its my absolute confidence that I have nothing illegal to be discovered.  
For criminally inclined people like Cross damon, who has proudly bragged on here that he never pays to get into movie theaters (he sneaks in = theft),  bragged how he vandalized churches with religious icons, brags that he carries a GUN with him everywhere in the \'hood\'....for such theiving vandal gun toting thugs, I can understand how/why they want the black community to be inhabited by criminals, it makes him feel more at home.  But there are still some of us who would have liked to be able to live in the black community, if it could be a safe place where law abiding people can be comfortable, instead of being unable to walk the streets w/o our pistols cocked.  
3.  I pointed out that a good portion of what we label \'racial profiliing\', are clearer instances of socio-economic class bias, along with xenophobia.  Anyone who is visiting a neighborhood, and dont look like the majority of those who are known to live there, will raise more suspicions...that goes for a minority visiting a relatively all white neighborhood, or a poor looking person in an affluent area, or a white person in an all black neighborhood (I dont suppose you consider it \'racial profiling\'  of whites, when you are watching the show Cops, and white folks seen going into all black/minority neighborhoods are suspected of looking to score drugs?)
I gotta go now, so to quickly answer some of the questions regarding specific examples of racially biased treatment.....Bo the example you gave of that person who was being given all the grunt tasks at work....depending on the type of work, I can see that causing either tangible physical and/or financial harm, so I would confront my boss. Its tangible financial harm b/c my future earnings ARE related to they type of experience that I am able to get at work.
I believe Smirk or someone mentioned something about if Rosa Parks having to stand on the bus while white folks sit was just an \"inconvenience\"....the answer is hell no...I spent many years riding public transportation, and having to stand on tired aching feet, instead of being able to sit, is most definitely a tangible physical harm.

BlkGeisha

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« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2001, 06:54:00 pm »
It happened to a boyfriend, so in a way it happened to the both of us. I was with him when this incident occurred. We had just walked out of a restuarant after having dinner. He was not interested in taking it to court because he felt it was a loosing proposition. He was not combative or loud. He offered to show the officer the title, registration and his drivers license which the officer took the license then told him he needed to handcuff him until he checked him. He allowed himself to be cuffed then after that he was forced to the ground. I was scared to death and I just stood there and kept quiet so as not to make matters worse. After all this was checked out he was released to go without even an apology. The whole thing started with a truimph being reported stolen.
BlkGeisha

DianaPrince

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« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2001, 08:11:00 pm »
BG, that is terrible!  You boyfriend should have definitely taken it to court. Cops like that dont deserve to wear a badge, and that type will probably be the type to inflict even worst abuse on others in the future.
If I\'m ever stopped, and while I was being cooperative and non-hostile, I was treated like that, I wouldn\'t rest until that cop had lost his badge or had been severely punished. I\'d pursue criminal AND civil court if I had to. Offer to sit for an independently administered polygraph, whatever I had to do.

-Mindkandy-

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Black Profiling...??
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2001, 08:51:00 pm »
quote:Originally posted by Boss cross damon:
MindKandy, just wondering, do you still have that white boyfriend?
Probably so, because you think black folks ain\'t \"cultured\".
Every black person in an IR is manifesting their deep seeded feelings about white supremacy.
Well since you are dying to know.  Yes we are still together...
Your point?
Mindkandy
\"who consideres herself very cultured\"

Osiris

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Black Profiling...??
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2001, 11:06:00 pm »
I think Black folk should do a little \"racial profiling\" on our own. We should check thoses negros flying amerikan flags from their cars.  
Supreme Court refuses to hear racial profiling cases. So there\'s no recourse in the law. Now what negros?

Legacy

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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2001, 12:47:00 am »
BlkGeisha posted
\"It\'s kinda hard to brush off racial profiling when you are handcuffed face down in the felony prone position in the street while the officer checks to see if you stole your own car. If that is not degrading and physical I\'m not sure what is then.\"
DP replied
\"BG, did that happen to YOU? And is there more to the story? ....\"
WTF??
Are you serious? So is it only wrong when it happens to the individual or do we have the right to call something wrong when we see it regardless if we experience it or not?
I know women who have been raped & I\'m sure you do as well, yet it never happened to me.  You would never question a woman in a position like that yet you come in here and argue this point as if racially profiling people isn\'t wrong? Racial profiling is  based one thing, race.  No evidence, no prior information, no psychological profile, & most of the times a crime hasn\'t even been committed. It\'s a cop saying \"Oh, there\'s a black person, I\'m think this person is gonna knock over a bank.\"
How can we justify profiling people based only on race when the overwhelming majority of people in every racial category are law abiding citizens?
Question:
Since we\'re on the topic of racial profiling..
When are we gonna start profiling white teenage boys as school massacre potentials & white christian men as potential militia members ( ie domestic terrorist )?

DianaPrince

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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2001, 04:44:00 pm »
Legacy,
Your post was the TYPICAL example of the overly defensive black person who sees every thing through a \'everybody is trying to victimize me\' persecution complex.
You are all hot and bothered and ready to be asking \"WTF?\", when all I did was try to clarify if BG was making a general comment about racial profiling, or if she was talking about something that happened to her(or in her presence, or to someone she knew, same difference), and that way I could inquire about the circumstances, like what brought it on, and if the cop was punished.  If she was just making a general comment, then she wouldn\'t have any further info to give me.  
The hyper sensitive negro like you dont give a shyt about the actually circumstances of an event, every daym thing is just another opportunity for you to scream racial profiling victimization.  
There ARE circumstances under which a cop does need to restrain someone and put their ass on the ground, regardless of color, and as much as I dont particularly care for cops, if I had a family member who was in that line of work, I daym sure want them to have the right to restrain an aggressive person if/when necessary.
\"How can we justify profiling people based only on race when the overwhelming majority of people in every racial category are law abiding citizens?\"
The same way we profile people based on sex, age, height, weight, ...when the overwhelming majority of persons of a given gender, age, height, or weight are law abiding citizens.
\"Question:
Since we\'re on the topic of racial profiling..When are we gonna start profiling white teenage boys as school massacre potentials & white christian men as potential militia members ( ie domestic terrorist )?\"
Well if you aren\'t already profiling them, thats YOUR problem...My teenage nephew has been advised by our family to be leary of the any white teenage boy in his school who seem antisocial or gets picked on by others.
And when I\'m in the presence of those men who fit the \"white trash\" or militia type profile, I daym sure watch my back even more closely than usual.  

As for you Bo,
You are still showing you typical \'always need to be in a fight\' paranoid black person attitude.
You dont pay my mortgage, but you cant accept that my last post was an accurate clarification of my views,...I must just have \"watered them down\"(why would I need to do that...my mortgage is paid w/o the assistance of anyone on here) to the point of not having any \"position\" at all...i.e. not having a position to allow YOU to assume your \'persecuted black warrior with a spear, ready to lunge at your oppressors\' role.
Unless you have something to go on the attack about, you really cant function or conduct a civilized dialogue for any amount of time...well no surprise there, such is the mentality of defensive paranoid people who feel they have to spend every waking moment of their entire life with their guard up.
Like you said, peace anyway.

Cross demon,
I dont even have the time to read you post right now(although the content is predictable).  I\'m on my way to go see Training Day.  And I hate to disappoint you, but we actually pay get into the movies.  I wouldn\'t go anywhere with a criminal man who would want to sneak me in through the back door.
Later, hater.

-Mindkandy-

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« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2001, 06:41:00 pm »
quote:Originally posted by Boss cross damon:
Mindkandy, I\'m not dying to know. I\'m dying to let everyone else know that your opinion is entangled with the white supremacist ideology. That was the point, it was the last sentence of the post.
Remembering your thread about black folks not being \"cultured\", I wonder why it is that the more \"cultured\" one considers themselves, the closer they are in proximity to white folks? Do they associate \"culturedness\" with being white?
You are a white supremacist ideologue, Mindkandy. Your statements, and your actions (boyfriend) do indeed indicate your \"culturedness\", in white supremacy, that is.

Of course in your own mind, you believe you are absolutely right, but I can accept that.  No matter what I say, you will believe what you want period and also turn my words into statements I didn\'t make nor imply in an absolute fashion.

I don\'t believe:
-blacks need (and must) only stay with blacks romantically speaking. I know some here don\'t feel that way, but that\'s fine.
-that having a white friend or boyfriend somehow allows me to be cultured.  You didn\'t care to ask but assume my defintion of cultured. It is one who is open (meaning willing to learn and hear at least) to a variety of people, cultures, experiences and ideas, -reasonably speaking-. If I ONLY allowed myself the ability to befriend whites and no one else, then I would not consider myself cultured by my OWN defintion. I would consider myself just as limited in experiences and openness with other people as one would be befriending ONLY blacks purposefully.
-that life is a constant racial battlefield although racism exists and we still have knots to untangle
-that my identity is tied into being separatist and victimist -at all costs- as a black person
-that in order for me to prove how black I am, I must ONLY find black men attractive and behave in a certain fashion deemed popularly tied into blackness by a large quantity of blacks here and elsewhere.
-that only white men are attractive and will ONLY date white men and despise blacks.  Some here will believe this but all that is ..is delusional as well as ridiculous thinking for which they have no basis for because I never said any of that nor implied I felt that way
-that I am here to satisfy nor validate each and every person\'s view of things here
-that people can\'t think for themselves in terms of how they view me, thus they don\'t need someone else interpreting for them or showing

Those ARE facts about me and what I believe.  Your view is merely an opinion of me.
If these views make me the apotheosis of a white supremacist mindset, then hey what can I say but what is usually said in cases like these: You ARE entitled to your OPINION.
Mindkandy

RR

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Black Profiling...??
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2001, 01:50:00 pm »
DP,
Welcome back.
Your remarks regarding racial profiling seem reasonable to me. Most black people seem incapable of relating racial profiling to the VERY high proportion of violent crime committed by blacks. Even a cursory study of violent crime statistics will reveal that blacks commit a disporportionally large amount of violent crime. And, contrary to popular opinion, this disproportion is not mainly due to our activity in the drug trade.
We must face some rather uncomfortable truths about ourselves if we are to progress as a people. One of these truths is that we have a relatively high (i.e. relative to other racial/ethnic groups) proportion of criminals living among us. I don\'t like this fact and I\'m sure most black people don\'t like this fact, but it is a fact none the less.