Dating & Relationship Forums - DatingChat.org

All NaturalI strongly agree with some of what you said and strongly disagree with the rest.I agree that Black women do not fit he standard of beauty set by this white culture.  I agree that black women are beautiful in their own rights, forget the weaves.  But after that you go amiss, in my opinion.  Black women have their own niche.  (And what a sweet moist niche it is.)  They should cultivate it not complain about it.  First, drop the attitude.  Black men don\'t like negative attitudes, neither do any men.  Most Black men love Black women.  Look around you.  Who do you see most Black men with?  Natural hair is cool and a nice round a*s is a big plus.  So what is the problem?  Oh yes, Carmen Electra.  Do you really care who Dennis Rodman prefers?  Take the chip off your shoulders and look in the mirror.  Being overweight is not on anybody\'s beauty standards today.  This isn\'t Elizabethan England.  Just listen to what your sisters on this board say about overweight men.  So let\'s try to be just a little bit objective here!You can\'t change your hair, you can lose a few pounds if you prefer the man to the pound cake.  However some men like large meatty women.  I\'m sure you saw Waiting to Exhale.As far as sucessful Black men with white women, Why don\'t you cross bearing women ever mention all the sisters who prefer White men?  Or, better yet the Black women who date white men exclusively?  And on this issue you dont have to look just to successful Black women.  You\'ve got plenty sisters on this board who rave about their white men.  When was the last time you heard the brothers crying about that sh*t?  We don\'t really care.  Love whomever you want.  Just stop bad mousting us as a rationalization of your behavior.  We don\'t really give a ****!  There are plenty of men and plenty of women out here available.  Just go get yourself one.  If you have to lose a few pounds, do it, but skip the weave.  And paleeeeeze, Lose the attitude.  And as far as this biracial sh*t is concerned.  Kiss my as*!  If you\'ve got one drop of the BLOOD baby, you\'re black.  Where the hell have you been?  This is some more of that Shoe Black sisters versus the High Yellows.  I hate that devisive sh*t.  Get off of it.The biggest problem with people like you is that you are in denial of your personal faults, and blame it on our brainwashed racial bias.  That is absolute bullshit.  I have had wonderful women across the color range without ever leaving the hood.  Ami was dark as licorice, and just as sweet.  And SEEEEXXXXXXXXXXXXXXYYYYEEEEEEE!  But I did have to tell her to lose the weave.  Every time I pulled her head to me I could feel all that tennis racket like sh*t underneath.  And other Blackmen approved of my choice.  Everywhere we went men would stare, and try to catch her eye.  The girl was fine!  PERIOD!  And she **** sure didn\'t have a complex about her darkness.  It wasn\'t hindering her.Joni was so light the cops thought she was white and kept pulling me over.  With her green eyes.  That fine thing.  I haven\'t seen anyone as fine as her in playboy.  And I had a subscription for twenty years.  She had a big pretty sister as* and one of those tiny waists, you complained about(So did Amy).  A Black man can fulfill all his female fantasies and never leave the hood.  Most Black men I know like white women because they treat them so good.  But they love Black women who treat them good too.If this was a court and I was the judge, I\'d throw your case out for lack of evidence.  Get real!Mr SincereI wouldn\'t fu*k Whoppi Goldberg with your di*k.  She is sooooooooooooooooooooooo hideous and an aunt Jamima and has a fu*ked up attitude to boot.  I\'m so glad she\'s into white men I don\'t know what to do.  I thank the white man every day for taking her and Dee off our hands.  On the other hand, Oprah could get some play here.  She doesn\'t look half bad since she dropped all that weight.  Are you sure you\'ve seen her lately?

Javate:It is easy to state that Black men just want attractive Black women, women who look good. I am sure that is what most Black men want, just as most Black women want good looking Black men. My question is who is determining what “looks good” is.Mr Sincere:Thats easy Javate.  The people making the products and the people who demand them make the standard.   But then the product makers ( image makers ) change the look or the standard and their valued customers support the new change with their money.    I feel that men and women both spend money with the image makers.     The image makers exploit people who feel they need to conform to the standard that the image makers present.    Thats why images change.    We do know who is determining what looks good, and we also know who is supporting what looks good with their money.      Javate:It has been stated that we all have preferences; this is true. How are our preferences set? Are our preferences and likes just there, they just happen to be, or do they develop out of what we see, hear, taste, touch, what we have been conditioned to believe or know? Mr Sincere :I agree Javate that our preferences do come from what we see, hear, taste, touch, what we have been conditioned to believe or know.   It\'s one thing to support an image and have a preference from that image that is created.    But it is another thing to go out of your way to put down your own just because your sister or brother doesnt meet the image you support.   Javate:Banjo and Mr. Sincere, you both have stated that Whoopi Goldberg and Oprah do not meet your standard of beauty. Why? What is about their look that is unattractive? Against what standard are you measuring their attractiveness? Why are you attracted to the women who catch your eye? I ask these questions because I feel, that in most cases, our preferences, what we deem attractive is influenced by society and its dictates.Mr Sincere :Here is the reason I dont find them attractive.    I am not attracted to Whoopi because I dont find her to be feminine. Not only that ,  her look , her voice combined turns me off.   Take Yvonne Stickney who played Winstons mom in Stella.    I find her to be very attractive.   She has a similar complexion and locks like Whoopi,  but I find her face to be more appealing,  and she sounds and carries herself more feminine.   I feel that way about Angela.  Some people dont think she is feminine, and they think she has a deep voice, but I feel just the opposite.     Now ......I could switch to light complexion women and show you women there that I dont find attractive. But my point is......preferences are not just a beauty standard ,  but what a person is attracted to.   There is no common denominator when it comes to a beauty standard for me.   I just look for what attracts me.  That means my preferences and taste is hard to pinpoint because many women have different things I could be attracted to. Now with Oprah ,  when she was overweight ,  I didnt find her attractive.   But when she lost the weight,  she looked more attractive to me.   Now that she has leveled off.    She still has a nice shape.   She is far from skinny or thin, but her shape looks good. But her make-up had the same effect that a weave has on me.   When you take off the make-up and you look stripped and a totally different person, that changes how I \"look\" at you.   So those are the reasons why I am not attracted to Oprah or Whoopi.      

I agree with most of whay you said Mr. Sincere but...#1 yes women can think for themselves. I am a woman and I definitely think for myself. Sometimes you have to exercise a thing called UNDERSTANDING before you call blame. Many sisters are competitive and dress a certain way and get weaves so that they will be the best looking. But why is that? Society subconciously teaches that a womans looks are her worth. Why is it that the pretty and popular girls are cheerleaders and pom poms and everyone wants to be like them. Are any men caught up in trying to be the best looking and popular? I do agree that some women get dolled up to out do other women, but they also do it for the attention of men. In a nutshell, many women get dolled up to out do all the women so that all the male attention will go to them. This is not all women. A woman like me goes out to have a good time point blank! Yes women can think for themselves but women must give themselves permission to. Once a woman reaches a higher level of consciousness, she creates her own standard of beauty and success, and then she no longer has time to compete with other women. #2 When I say \"We\" I am talking about this society. Anyone can say that they are not part of this society and they are fooling themselves. Unless you were raised somewhere else you have American values. You may not see it now Mr. Sincers, but step outside of this country for more than a week and you will realize just how American you are. As a society we do worship thinness and youth. However it is a contradiction that this is the country that is most saturated with greasy fast food joints where you can get a full meal for $2, and items of convenience like cable tv and Play station so everyone can just lay up on their a#$ all day and still be entertained. That just dosent happen in other countries as much as here. Anyway, maybe we will see eye to eye one day. If not, well that is what makes the world go round, different viewpoints.

whew!  It is hot in here!I have to agree with the original poster as far as the American standard of beauty is concerned.  You very rarely see a black woman grace the cover of any fashion magazine, period.  I think it is a shame that our country has not seen the allure of the black woman.  I think black women are very beautiful and sexy.... (speaking from a strictly heterosexual point of view of course :-))  But, it is true that when you have been bombarded from birth with images of white women... i.e. blonde blue-eyed long haired, skinny as a rail beauty... how could you NOT find that attractive?  Now as for the weaves and such, since I\'m white, I\'ve had little exposure to weaves, but in the same sense, I DO color my hair to highlight the blonde.  Isn\'t that the same kind of thing?  I mean, highlighting your hair isn\'t some easy feat.  You have to have little strands of hair pulled through this tight cap with holes all over it and then spread this gook over the hair and sit for 20 minutes or so.  My hair is long too.. so trust me it takes a long time and it hurts.. but I do it because I like the image.. I like my reflection with the highlights.  I don\'t do it because some guy told me he wouldn\'t date me if I didn\'t color my hair (but maybe I hear that subconsciously?) I have been told by dates that they would get mad at me if I cut my hair.. my last boyfriend even told me that I couldn\'t get my hair cut unless he went with me!  (He ain\'t my boyfriend anymore.. LOL)  I guess the point I\'m trying to make is that in my opinion, most men like feminity... nice nails, styled hair, attractive clothes, body that looks as though you give a ****, etc.  As a woman, I like men who take care of their bodies, their teeth, wear s**** that aren\'t beat all to hell and can speak intelligently.  European beauty standards may be more geared towards white people\'s attributes, but ultimately the attraction is when the person looks as though she/he cares about themselves enough to put on some makeup to enhance their God-given beauty, wash their hair every once in a while, go to the dentist, etc.  Well, I\'m through ranting.

\"Why sistahs should we have to live in a white woman\'s world of beauty? Why the hair weaves and contacts and the starvation. Be proud of your full lips and thick hips. Be proud of your natural hair, GOD gave it to you, it\'s your crown and glory. Why wear someone else\'s crown and glory? be proud of your dark skin( the skin they lay in the sun to get) be proud of your African beauty. If the world can\'t handle our beauty , to hell with them, don\'t change yourself to meet someone else\'s standard.\"\"Ladies we don\'t have to have long flowing weaves down our backs to be beautiful or succesful. just being yourself and being happy with what GOD gave you is a success in itself for black women living in America. \"Mr Sincere: See the above?......brothers have been saying the same thing and giving you our reasons.  How come when we say it.....you take it as blame or wanting a cookie for acknowledging blackwomens beauty?   Seems to me the above is making the same case men here have been saying,  that blackwomen have to take responsibility for adopting someone elses image. Here\'s some more: \"I know that some brothers do not agree totally with what Allnatural was saying, however, from a female perspective I do agree. I think that Allnatural is making a transition in her life that many AA women are making. That is deciding to embrace her African beauty and wear natural hair, nails, etc. etc.\"AGAIN?  where are brothers disagreeing???.  Isnt it obvious that some of you read what you want to read and think someone is disagreeing?  I have said this in the past.....I\'m going to say it again.  Womens emotions blocks the ability to accept what men say.   Women seem to have an automatic rejection button when a man shares his thoughts.  It\'s almost like you dont even check the content of his words....instantly you think he disagrees.   And man,  the word blame is the first line of defense for everything.Look at your own words and describe what you are saying?  Are you not blaming women?.   To use your own word \"blame\" It seems you are placing blame yourselves.I call it taking responsibility, you keep calling it blame.  In fact it\'s blame when we say it,  and taking responsibility when you say it.   Totally confusing.....No wonder we cant get anywhere together.   Then ya\'ll start hi fiving each other because of what you all are agreeing on.  Hello???   Men said what you said, we even added more to the mix.   But somehow some of you have translated it as blame???  Please reread everything that we said.....you\'ll see what I mean.  There is a glich that prevents us to see each others view,  because we \"Image\" the person saying something else.And this tidbit???  \"I do realize that many men find Lauryn Hill beautiful, and that is wonderful. However I wonder if that is because she is \"accepted\" by this mainstream culture for the moment.\"Lauryn\'s success allows more exposure,  because she is noticed more, we can assess she is beautiful.  But that doesnt mean she is beautiful to everybody?  Thats why I said some people have preferences.   Some men or some women for that matter may not find her to be attractive.   Whats wrong with that?But how come that same argument about success isnt being used for Whoopi. She\'s got money ( more than Lauryn ), success...in fact she has more exposure than Lauryn.  How come the same argument doesnt apply here?  I\'ll tell you why......because Whoopi is Whoopi and Lauryn is Lauryn.   Two totally different looks and personnas.  Not even knowing Lauryn , if they had the choice of two women to date,  many blackmen would pick Lauryn.  And you know thats the truth.I know of Lauryn who went to school in NJ.....she was a fine young lady then,  just as she is now.   So that argument is weak concerning her success is making her more attractive.  Her whole package looks more attractive.   The truth is Lauryn probably never really had a problem attracting brothers,  except in the minds of sisters trying to make a theory work when it doesnt work for everybody  It aint working for Whoopi.   If that argument was true why isnt it working for Whoopi???   Thats why people dont assume we disagree.....take the time to see how each of our perspectives is inclusive and can apply if you see where it does.  But dont try to make a point fit for everybody.   Because everybody doesnt fit.   And everybody in this society isnt stuck on a American beauty standard.I\'ll stop here.......Give me some feedback please.

Solutions Please!!!O.K. we have gone around the block and back debating this topic. What I am getting from this discussion is that we both Black Women and Men can be confused when it comes to trying to live up to a beauty standard that is not ours (women), and seeking out someone who resembles that beauty standard that is not ours (men). The main thing is that we all are not guilty of this, but many of us are. So what I am asking is what can be done about this. We cannot change what we and young kids see on tv (music videos), or can we? Since we are all questioning this beauty standard maybe we can articulate this to our misguided friends and associates. Maybe that is a start.

Yes ,  I have heard of agreeing to disagree. I also have heard of seeing how many of us have many perspectives , some similar and some different.   Something we all can benefit from is exchanging ideas and perspectives.   How are you ever going to grow if you can only see it one way and you are afraid to accept outside input?   Stroking each others egos and thinking youve figured it all out,  but looking at the problem from an incomplete perspective prevents you from seeing what else you might have missed.CT......If you dont like posters to respond to anything you say,  why post?  Everybody has a perspective to share.  You didnt expect that when you came to a message board? As far as your character assessment of me and the other things you typed , I understand why it\'s necessary for you to do that.    So ......I wont buy into the stuff you said,  because your response and how you expressed it says it all.   Just think....I did the right thing by not falling for your \"I\'m just curious\" approach.    You didnt realize it but your fangs were showing and the venom is surely dripping.  ( smile )Now let\'s get back to the issues, shall we?